82:45
HO: Did HOWARD lodge any kind of allegation against you?
Me: Yeah, he said I grabbed his arm.
HO: OK. Did you visit HOWARD before or after he said you grabbed his arm?
Me: That was before the allegation was given to me.
HO: OK. When did you visit HOWARD—the home visit?
Me: This was …just after election day.
HO: OK.
Me: The weekend after election day. And I hadn’t received any allegations.
84:00
So that’s why I said that I had to do that contact with MADELENE at about the same. time.
HO: OK. We established that election day was November 4. OK. HOWARD made an allegation that you had grabbed his hand on November 3.
Me: Not to me.
HO: He didn’t have to make the allegation to you.
Me: But I didn’t know about it.
HO: Did you grab his hand on November 3?
Me: No.
HO: No?
Me: No.
HO Who investigated that?
Me: Um
HO: PRINCIPAL P.?
Me: I don’t know.
HO: That’s corporal punishment, right?
Me: Yes, but that meeting was not held until after I talked to the parents.
85:07
HO: Ok but at some point you had a meeting. Was it a disciplinary conference about that incident? What was determined from that.
Me: That she believed him.
HO OK, so…you have a situation, again I’m not there. I’m the investigator, I’m not there in any of these things. You have an incident on November 3, alleged incident.
Me: But to me it wasn’t an incident. I didn’t know anything about the incident until I was informed by the principal after these conversations took place.
HO I understand. I understand. There’s an alleged incident according to HOWARD on November 3 where Ms. UNTAMED allegedly pulled HOWARD’s hand. He was writing down on paper problems that he had with Ms UNTAMED. According to HOWARD, you grabbed and pulled his hand and took the paper from him, OK? And stated, stop writing things about me. This is what HOWARD states. After that incident you visited occured HOWARD’s home, very early, unannounced and you told HOWARD’s mother that he lied and that you never grabbed his hand, only grabbed the paper. And you stated to his mother that SILAS is making comments and threatening you and that if you fail him he would tell his parents and you stated that all the students are a negative influence on HOWARD and making him tell lies on you. Does any of that ring a bell?
Me: OK what happened was that we were having a test and the boys were calling out—same four boys—were calling out that MADELENE was cheating and so since they were making noise during the test I gave them each a piece of paper—not looseleaf, a piece of white computer paper --and said if you have something that you want me to know or if you have a complaint, write it down.
87:50
HO During the test?
Me: During the test, because they were calling out, saying, “she’s cheating, and you’re not paying any attention. She’s cheating. So I said, whatever you want to say, write it down on this piece of paper.
HO Was she cheating?
Me: Well, let’s leave MADELENE and go back to the boys. SILAS PATECO, HOWARD, JAREL, and I forget if there was anybody else, oh, ALAN. I gave them paper so that if they had complaints or if they were seeing anything that they were very upset about, not to call out during the test—not to call out and disturb everybody, but write it down. So I gave them the paper, and they were quietly writing, and everybody else was doing the test, and I went around picking up the scantrons—there was no other paper on the desk—only scantrons and the white paper I gave the boys to write on and so then I said, ok, give me the paper, so I took the paper from a couple of the boys and then HOWARD said, “I’m not going to give it to you. And I said, “What’s the point of me giving you the paper to write on if you’re not going to give it to me and so he say’s “UHHH” and he was going like this (giving me the paper and then snatching it back when I went to take hold of it) and so I was reaching for it, and as he was going like that (waving it around), but there was no grabbing. There might have been contact, because he was going like this, like playing around and that was it. And so I didn’t know that that was going to be an allegation until later.
90:11
Me: I’ve got to check the dates because I have the dates of that test—was it the third?
HO: So during a test some male students were saying that MADELENE was cheating.
Me: That she had answers written on her hand.
HO: Did she?
Me: Well I didn’t check to see if she had answers written on her hand, no.
HO: Why not.
Me: Because I didn’t believe them. She didn’t look like she was cheating and there was no answers to be written on hands for that test. She couldn’t have written down the answers ahead of time for the test. It wasn’t that kind of test.
ADVOCATE: You were trying to shut the boys up by giving them a paper so that they wouldn’t disturb the whole class.
Me: That’s basically it. And I have those papers that the boys wrote, and again they don’t have dates and they aren’t signed, but I have the papers that HOWARD wrote.
HO How did you get HOWARD’s?
91:35
Me: He finally, you know, he was going like this (waving the paper around making like to give it to me and then pulling it back as I tried to take it) and we made contact. There was no grabbing. Finally he just let go.
HO: OK
Me: It was playing around.
HO: Did you bring the letters?
Me: The letters that they wrote? No.
HO: Wouldn’t that have been key to that corporal punishment allegation, that they saw something that HOWARD had wrote?
Me: There was no signature and no date.
HO: It doesn’t matter. It’s either his handwriting or it isn’t. You say this is what HOWARD wrote.
ADVOCATE: And what happened to those papers?
Me: I have them at home. I also have a paper that MADELENE wrote that said “I wasn’t cheating” and I told her, “I know.”
HO: I mean that would be key. “Hey this is what HOWARD wrote about MADELENE cheating.
ADVOCATE: Did they give you a chance to respond to that allegation that you touched HOWARD’s hand?
Me: I said that I hadn’t.
ADVOCATE: And you’re investigating that as well, or is this part of something else?
HO No, no. So she’s saying…I’m not even investigating that. That’s something that PRINCIPAL P. investigated.
Me: To be honest, if PRINCIPAL P. didn’t know about this, it’s all the better for me ,because they just would have worked something out to explain it or explain it away.
HO: No, it’s not better for you if it’s going to end up being substantiated.
Me: She substantiates anything that they say against me.
HO: Listen, if you say that you have something that shows something that HOWARD wrote.
Me: It wasn’t dated and it wasn’t signed
HO: It doesn’t matter. Did they write it or didn’t they write it.
Me: She wouldn’t believe me. She always substantiates the kids over me. As they said, “We’ll get our friends…” which they did, they all wrote their little statements that I grabbed him and now its substantiated because they have witnesses.
HO: Ok the way it looks is… I understand what you’re telling me, ok the way it looks, you’re tampering with an investigation is that here you have a situtation in which HOWARD’s saying that on November 3 he was writing something down. You pulled it away from him and then that same weekend you show up at his house and say oh no no no, it’s not what HOWARD said it’s something totally different. You’re saying in your defense that hey this is what happened, but you didn’t grab it or anything like that. You felt that he was going to concoct something so you went out to do damage control basically.
Me: No, I didn’t know that that was going to me the concoction.
HO: You knew that something was going to be concocted.
Me: At some point.
ADVOCATE: At some point. But not necessarily that incident.
Me: Not necessarily that.
ADVOCATE: Because you didn’t know at the time that there was a complaint, yet.
Me: No. There was no complaint yet.
HO: And HOWARD is saying here…
Me: They already said that they were going to get me in trouble.
95:30
HO: HOWARD stated that he tapped MADELENE on the shoulder to find a page number and she said “What” and you asked MADELENE why she was screaming and MADELENE stated that HOWARD touched me and you said, I guess you’re used to people touching you all the time. Something to that effect. MADELENE became angry at the comment and remained quiet, and HOWARD said that he thought it was an attempt to portray MADELENE as a slut. On the same day in question regarding… Is ALAN one of the kids? ALAN said the same thing that you visited his home the same day that you visited HOWARD’s. After class HOWARD reported to Ms. XAVIER that you had grabbed him and at some point you asked him what he told Ms. XAVIER.
Me: I didn’t even know that he had gone to Ms. XAVIER. I didn’t know that this was going to be the allegation. To me it was just, give me the paper don’t give me the paper, give me the paper and that was it. It was fooling around. So it was more of the same, and again remember, they’re still bothering MADELENE, they’re saying that she’s cheating, their disrupting the class, interrupting a test, and so I followed up and made home visits.
98:00
HO: Well let me ask you this, when did you first learn that there was an allegation made against you by HOWARD?
Me: It would take a couple of weeks because first they would give me a letter saying that I should meet with them and then I would meet with them and I would be given the allegation. But again it would take at least two weeks before I was informed about who was accusing me of what.
ADVOCATE: I was going to say you couldn’t ask him about something if you didn’t know there was any kind of…
Me: There was no question and answer. We were just discussing. First of all I told the mothers about the threats and then the kids, it did tip me off that they were being questioned because then in front of the parents they told me about grabbing and things like that. So we did discuss it with the parents when I got there, but I didn’t know that the allegations had been made yet.
100:04
Showing posts with label OSI Hearing. Show all posts
Showing posts with label OSI Hearing. Show all posts
Thursday, June 4, 2009
Friday, May 29, 2009
OSI HEARING: COW OR BREASTS
TIME INTO HEARING 21:27 MINUTES
HO: Did you say that the boys were sexually harassing MADELENE?
Me: No I said that she was complaining about boys teasing her.
HO: OK, being bothered in the classroom, teasing. So it wasn’t a sexual complaint.
Me: She was being bothered, being teased by them.
HO: So no sexual complaint
Me: No I don’t think I used the word sexual, but again that was back on October 24.
21:51
HO: Because the sexual complaint raises the bar a little bit. So that’s why I need to know if you said it or not. Whether we’re talking about you saying just the teasing back and forth, banter between kids, you know mean-spirited stuff or are we talking about..
Me: If I said sexual at all, I just said she was being teased and that the mother should—actually I don’t think I used the word sexual at all. She was just being harassed. Harassed might have been the word I used, but it wasn’t sex. It was just being bothered, harassed, but not sexual harassment.
HO: teased, but no sexual harassment.
Me: No not as far as touching--that would give her the idea that she was being fondled or something like that but just being teased.
HO: What about verbal sexual harasssment?
Me: From what she wrote, she was being called a cow, so I don’t know if that’s verbal sexual harassment or not, that’s just teasing.
HO: Yeah, calling somebody a cow is not sexual in and of itself. But no sexual harassment, verbal or touching touching or verbal sexual harassment.
Me: If anything, the boys said she called them gay and would never be able to get a girlfriend, so it anything is sexual harassment, that is. But that’s also on the level of teasing.
23:40
HO: Did you tell the mom that?
Me: No, I told her to talk to her. I told her about difficulties she was having with boys in the class. There was a back and forth and that she should talk about what they were saying to her and what she was saying to them. That’s all.
HO: …talk to her regarding her comments..
Me: No, her….
HO: I’m trying to word it the way you want me to …
Me: No, it was an exchange of insults, really. They called her a cow, she called them gay.. I didn’t really say what they called her, because it was up to MADELENE.
HO; Ok, regarding her back and forth insults with the boys, is that OK? I want to put down what you want me to put down…so it was an exchange of insults. I’m trying to word it the way you want me to.
ADV: I note that she was having some trouble with some boys and that there was an exchange of insults and you specifically said you didn’t say the word sexual….
Me: I didn’t use the word sexual at all because that’s incendiary. The mother could come in screaming.
25:00
ADV: Let me see if I ‘ve got this right. You never specifically named SILAS PAJECO.
HO: Ok what MADELENE is saying that you told the mom that SILAS PAJECO made sexual comments to her. The mom calls her to the room and asks her if this were true and she stated that it wasn’t true while you allegedly were on the phone with the Mom—this is according to MADELENE and that you told the mom…
26:22
ADV: This is what the principal was saying?
HO: No this is what MADELENE was saying.
ADV: Who is MADELENE saying this to?
HO: To me, during an interview with MADELENE. MADELENE said that you had called MADELENE’S mom and stated that SILAS PAJECO made sexual comments about MADELENE or to MADELENE not even about MADELENE but to MADELENE
26:50
ADV: You’re interviewing MADELENE and MADELENE is telling you that the Mom…
HO: that MS UNTAMED called MADELENE’S home…
ADV: OK, got it. Ms. UNTAMED called MADELENE’S home…
HO: and during the conversation, stated to the mom that SILAS PAJECO made sexual comments to MADELENE. MADELENE says that her mom at that point calls MADELENE into the room while still on the phone and asks her if it was true and MADELENE stated that it was not true.
27:47
ADV: Ok just hold on a second, so the mom is on the phone with MS UNTAMED and she says MADELENE come here a minute, did SILAS PAJECO do any sexual harassing against you? Or something like that?
28:00
HO: …and MADELENE says no. Then she says that you had told the mom that it was true and that the mom should come up to the school and complain about SILAS PAJECO.
28:36
ADV: And this is what MADELENE’S telling you.
HO: Yes
ADV: That during the conversation the mom is saying to MADELENE that MS UNTAMED wants her to come up to school to see about it.
28:53
Me: First of all it was four boys. I couldn’t blame just SILAS because there was four boys and again I didn’t write this down right away and I didn’t record it in any way shape or form so I’m saying what I would do today after almost 30 years of teaching. If the mother called her in and said “did some boys insult you or use bad language to you?” and then MADELENE says," no mom, that didn’t happen”. I then would say, "oh yes it did". What I would have said was not that the child was lying to me, but that it was probable that maybe she didn’t want to talk about it right now, and that maybe she should talk about it at more length with the daughter. So just make sure that that was the real story. Because I had heard them say some things to MADELENE. I had heard the word “cow” for instance. I had heard them call her a cow. I might have insisted that yes I did hear one thing but I didn’t hear some of the other things that MADELENE said she was being called. It was up to MADELENE to say those things because I hadn’t heard them. I couldn’t be a witness to sexual harassment if all I heard was that they were calling her a cow.
HO: That was the only thing you heard them calling her that you can remember?
Me: The only thing that I heard them call loud enough to her was that they were calling her a cow and otherwise, what she said they were calling her. What she came up to me and said that they said to her was that she had big breasts or something like that, but I’m not quite sure.
HO: Did she verbally say this or did she write it down?
Me: I’d have to check that. I have to check that to see. If it was written or just verbal. But again, when I confronted the boys, they were saying that she was saying that they were gay and would never get a girlfriend so it was basically up to her. You know, I’ll have to go back and see if she actually wrote it down or I wrote it down somewhere.
32:10
HO: Would you have kept it if she wrote it down somewhere?
Me: I would have kept it. And I would have written it down somewhere. All I can remember is the cow thing because I actually heard it.
32:30
HO: This happened on or around November 16, the call...
Me: November 16th?
HO: On or around November 16th, the call to her home. Looks like a weekend. Looks like a Sunday.
Me: It could be that I waited that long, I don’t know because it was on October 24 is when I was talking to the boys. Maybe I gave the Dean’s Referral… It would have been more logical to call her right away closer…
HO: Do you remember in the conversation MADELENE being asked by her mother on the phone, hey are these boys bothering you or whatever and she
Me: I can’t remember right away I can’t remember that phone call but parents often do.
HO: If you don’t remember…
Me: It’s standard procedure for a parent to say come over here, your teacher’s on the phone.
ADV: What was the date of that phone call?
HO: On or about Nov. 16
Me: Nov. 16?
ADV: On or about. Thank you
Me: That seems awfully late. I would have to check up on that date. It sounds too late.
ADV: Who’s saying that the phone call was made on or about Nov. 16?
HO : MADELENE
ADV: Well she might be mistaken. That's MADELENE'S recollection.
Me: So she’s going to remember the exact date?
HO: Well it was on a Sunday.
Me: Yeah, it was a weekend definitely.
HO: SOREA BENDERS stated that in Nov 2008. The weekend before the parent-teacher conference. So that’s how we were able.. the weekend before the parent-teacher conferences. Now the parent conference was on Nov. 18 which you weren’t present, right?
Me: Yes I was present,
ADV: I have here that you were not present during the conference.
Me: Yes I was present during the afternoon, but I got ill and left and wasn’t present at night.
HO: Oh, the night one, OK.
Me: Now this.. no that can’t be the date, because the principal had me removed a week before the parent teacher conference and so um...
HO: for what reason?
Me: Based on some allegation that I’m sure is there somewhere. But I didn’t talk to any parents after that week.
HO: No what I’m saying is…just to ascertain the approximate time of the phone call to MADELENE’S home.
Me: Yeah, but that’s the thing. The week before the parent-teacher conference..
HO: No this was the weekend before.
Me: Yes but the week before the parent teacher conferences I was pulled out of the classroom and told not to talk to the students or the parents. I was put on detention in the basement.
HO: OK
Me: and so that would not be a time when I would be talking to a parent.
HO: So when do you say you called
Me: well, very close to October 24. October 31 was the end of the marking period, so the logical time to be talking about any problems that MADELENE might have was before the end of the marking period.
HO: Ok so its safe to say that from what time on you were told not to speak to any students or parents… from October then, right?
Me: No, the week before Nov 16th . Then I was told that I was going to be back in the classroom the next Monday. Was that the parent teacher conference? I don’t know.
HO The week before Nov 16 2008 you were told by who?
Me: I was pulled out of the classroom.
HO: yes but you were told by who
Me: PRINCIPAL P.
37:00
HO: you were told by PRINCIPAL P. that you could not speak to any students or parents pending an investigation?
Me: Yeah, but then that Friday, I was told I was going back to the classroom, so I suppose that now I had permission to talk to parents and students, but that was way too late. That’s not when I would have talked to her.
ADV: You think it would have been earlier.
Me: Yeah, it would have been right after that letter, right after that meeting with the boys.
HO: pending an investigation, right.
ADV. Yes. It makes sense that it would be right after the meeting with the boys.
Me: It would be the end of October or the first week of November. It wouldn’t have been this late after I was already pulled out, and disciplined.
HO: The parent that I spoke to independently stated that um you had called and stated that a boy, SILAS PAJECO told the daughter she has big buttocks and big breasts and that the teacher told her that she should file a complaint, told the parent, but the daughter denied the allegation.
39:00
ADV: Spoke to the parent and the parent said that MS UNTAMED when she called, during that controversial phone call OSI, told her that SILAS PAJECO…um
39:00
HO: MS UNTAMED told her that SILAS PAJECO told her daughter that she has big buttocks and big breasts. Does that ring a bell?
Me: Yeah, the big breasts—that’s where cow comes from.
HO There’s a difference between cow and big breasts, though
Me: I know, I know, but I only heard cow and so…
HO: So this is not accurate what the parent is saying.
Me: I might have said that MADELENE told me, but I would have to look at the little note she gave me. I didn’t bring it. It’s not signed or dated, not legal, so the big breast thing… If MADELENE was denying it, I might have said to the mother, well listen, this is what MADELENE told me now check and see if that’s still her story. It’s possible. If MADELENE is saying to help me the boys are calling me this, telling me that, then I might have said to the mother check with your daughter. She checks with her daughter, her daughter says no. Now I’ve gone to the trouble of supporting this girl which she told me something so then I told her, I might have told the mother exactly what the girl told me. The big breasts sounds like something I could have said if MADELENE told me. If that’s what MADELENE told me.
HO: But you don’t remember what MADELENE told you.
41:08
Me: If MADELENE didn’t say it to me, I didn’t say it to the mother. If MADELENE told me that, then I said it. This was back on October 24.
HO: Did you say that the boys were sexually harassing MADELENE?
Me: No I said that she was complaining about boys teasing her.
HO: OK, being bothered in the classroom, teasing. So it wasn’t a sexual complaint.
Me: She was being bothered, being teased by them.
HO: So no sexual complaint
Me: No I don’t think I used the word sexual, but again that was back on October 24.
21:51
HO: Because the sexual complaint raises the bar a little bit. So that’s why I need to know if you said it or not. Whether we’re talking about you saying just the teasing back and forth, banter between kids, you know mean-spirited stuff or are we talking about..
Me: If I said sexual at all, I just said she was being teased and that the mother should—actually I don’t think I used the word sexual at all. She was just being harassed. Harassed might have been the word I used, but it wasn’t sex. It was just being bothered, harassed, but not sexual harassment.
HO: teased, but no sexual harassment.
Me: No not as far as touching--that would give her the idea that she was being fondled or something like that but just being teased.
HO: What about verbal sexual harasssment?
Me: From what she wrote, she was being called a cow, so I don’t know if that’s verbal sexual harassment or not, that’s just teasing.
HO: Yeah, calling somebody a cow is not sexual in and of itself. But no sexual harassment, verbal or touching touching or verbal sexual harassment.
Me: If anything, the boys said she called them gay and would never be able to get a girlfriend, so it anything is sexual harassment, that is. But that’s also on the level of teasing.
23:40
HO: Did you tell the mom that?
Me: No, I told her to talk to her. I told her about difficulties she was having with boys in the class. There was a back and forth and that she should talk about what they were saying to her and what she was saying to them. That’s all.
HO: …talk to her regarding her comments..
Me: No, her….
HO: I’m trying to word it the way you want me to …
Me: No, it was an exchange of insults, really. They called her a cow, she called them gay.. I didn’t really say what they called her, because it was up to MADELENE.
HO; Ok, regarding her back and forth insults with the boys, is that OK? I want to put down what you want me to put down…so it was an exchange of insults. I’m trying to word it the way you want me to.
ADV: I note that she was having some trouble with some boys and that there was an exchange of insults and you specifically said you didn’t say the word sexual….
Me: I didn’t use the word sexual at all because that’s incendiary. The mother could come in screaming.
25:00
ADV: Let me see if I ‘ve got this right. You never specifically named SILAS PAJECO.
HO: Ok what MADELENE is saying that you told the mom that SILAS PAJECO made sexual comments to her. The mom calls her to the room and asks her if this were true and she stated that it wasn’t true while you allegedly were on the phone with the Mom—this is according to MADELENE and that you told the mom…
26:22
ADV: This is what the principal was saying?
HO: No this is what MADELENE was saying.
ADV: Who is MADELENE saying this to?
HO: To me, during an interview with MADELENE. MADELENE said that you had called MADELENE’S mom and stated that SILAS PAJECO made sexual comments about MADELENE or to MADELENE not even about MADELENE but to MADELENE
26:50
ADV: You’re interviewing MADELENE and MADELENE is telling you that the Mom…
HO: that MS UNTAMED called MADELENE’S home…
ADV: OK, got it. Ms. UNTAMED called MADELENE’S home…
HO: and during the conversation, stated to the mom that SILAS PAJECO made sexual comments to MADELENE. MADELENE says that her mom at that point calls MADELENE into the room while still on the phone and asks her if it was true and MADELENE stated that it was not true.
27:47
ADV: Ok just hold on a second, so the mom is on the phone with MS UNTAMED and she says MADELENE come here a minute, did SILAS PAJECO do any sexual harassing against you? Or something like that?
28:00
HO: …and MADELENE says no. Then she says that you had told the mom that it was true and that the mom should come up to the school and complain about SILAS PAJECO.
28:36
ADV: And this is what MADELENE’S telling you.
HO: Yes
ADV: That during the conversation the mom is saying to MADELENE that MS UNTAMED wants her to come up to school to see about it.
28:53
Me: First of all it was four boys. I couldn’t blame just SILAS because there was four boys and again I didn’t write this down right away and I didn’t record it in any way shape or form so I’m saying what I would do today after almost 30 years of teaching. If the mother called her in and said “did some boys insult you or use bad language to you?” and then MADELENE says," no mom, that didn’t happen”. I then would say, "oh yes it did". What I would have said was not that the child was lying to me, but that it was probable that maybe she didn’t want to talk about it right now, and that maybe she should talk about it at more length with the daughter. So just make sure that that was the real story. Because I had heard them say some things to MADELENE. I had heard the word “cow” for instance. I had heard them call her a cow. I might have insisted that yes I did hear one thing but I didn’t hear some of the other things that MADELENE said she was being called. It was up to MADELENE to say those things because I hadn’t heard them. I couldn’t be a witness to sexual harassment if all I heard was that they were calling her a cow.
HO: That was the only thing you heard them calling her that you can remember?
Me: The only thing that I heard them call loud enough to her was that they were calling her a cow and otherwise, what she said they were calling her. What she came up to me and said that they said to her was that she had big breasts or something like that, but I’m not quite sure.
HO: Did she verbally say this or did she write it down?
Me: I’d have to check that. I have to check that to see. If it was written or just verbal. But again, when I confronted the boys, they were saying that she was saying that they were gay and would never get a girlfriend so it was basically up to her. You know, I’ll have to go back and see if she actually wrote it down or I wrote it down somewhere.
32:10
HO: Would you have kept it if she wrote it down somewhere?
Me: I would have kept it. And I would have written it down somewhere. All I can remember is the cow thing because I actually heard it.
32:30
HO: This happened on or around November 16, the call...
Me: November 16th?
HO: On or around November 16th, the call to her home. Looks like a weekend. Looks like a Sunday.
Me: It could be that I waited that long, I don’t know because it was on October 24 is when I was talking to the boys. Maybe I gave the Dean’s Referral… It would have been more logical to call her right away closer…
HO: Do you remember in the conversation MADELENE being asked by her mother on the phone, hey are these boys bothering you or whatever and she
Me: I can’t remember right away I can’t remember that phone call but parents often do.
HO: If you don’t remember…
Me: It’s standard procedure for a parent to say come over here, your teacher’s on the phone.
ADV: What was the date of that phone call?
HO: On or about Nov. 16
Me: Nov. 16?
ADV: On or about. Thank you
Me: That seems awfully late. I would have to check up on that date. It sounds too late.
ADV: Who’s saying that the phone call was made on or about Nov. 16?
HO : MADELENE
ADV: Well she might be mistaken. That's MADELENE'S recollection.
Me: So she’s going to remember the exact date?
HO: Well it was on a Sunday.
Me: Yeah, it was a weekend definitely.
HO: SOREA BENDERS stated that in Nov 2008. The weekend before the parent-teacher conference. So that’s how we were able.. the weekend before the parent-teacher conferences. Now the parent conference was on Nov. 18 which you weren’t present, right?
Me: Yes I was present,
ADV: I have here that you were not present during the conference.
Me: Yes I was present during the afternoon, but I got ill and left and wasn’t present at night.
HO: Oh, the night one, OK.
Me: Now this.. no that can’t be the date, because the principal had me removed a week before the parent teacher conference and so um...
HO: for what reason?
Me: Based on some allegation that I’m sure is there somewhere. But I didn’t talk to any parents after that week.
HO: No what I’m saying is…just to ascertain the approximate time of the phone call to MADELENE’S home.
Me: Yeah, but that’s the thing. The week before the parent-teacher conference..
HO: No this was the weekend before.
Me: Yes but the week before the parent teacher conferences I was pulled out of the classroom and told not to talk to the students or the parents. I was put on detention in the basement.
HO: OK
Me: and so that would not be a time when I would be talking to a parent.
HO: So when do you say you called
Me: well, very close to October 24. October 31 was the end of the marking period, so the logical time to be talking about any problems that MADELENE might have was before the end of the marking period.
HO: Ok so its safe to say that from what time on you were told not to speak to any students or parents… from October then, right?
Me: No, the week before Nov 16th . Then I was told that I was going to be back in the classroom the next Monday. Was that the parent teacher conference? I don’t know.
HO The week before Nov 16 2008 you were told by who?
Me: I was pulled out of the classroom.
HO: yes but you were told by who
Me: PRINCIPAL P.
37:00
HO: you were told by PRINCIPAL P. that you could not speak to any students or parents pending an investigation?
Me: Yeah, but then that Friday, I was told I was going back to the classroom, so I suppose that now I had permission to talk to parents and students, but that was way too late. That’s not when I would have talked to her.
ADV: You think it would have been earlier.
Me: Yeah, it would have been right after that letter, right after that meeting with the boys.
HO: pending an investigation, right.
ADV. Yes. It makes sense that it would be right after the meeting with the boys.
Me: It would be the end of October or the first week of November. It wouldn’t have been this late after I was already pulled out, and disciplined.
HO: The parent that I spoke to independently stated that um you had called and stated that a boy, SILAS PAJECO told the daughter she has big buttocks and big breasts and that the teacher told her that she should file a complaint, told the parent, but the daughter denied the allegation.
39:00
ADV: Spoke to the parent and the parent said that MS UNTAMED when she called, during that controversial phone call OSI, told her that SILAS PAJECO…um
39:00
HO: MS UNTAMED told her that SILAS PAJECO told her daughter that she has big buttocks and big breasts. Does that ring a bell?
Me: Yeah, the big breasts—that’s where cow comes from.
HO There’s a difference between cow and big breasts, though
Me: I know, I know, but I only heard cow and so…
HO: So this is not accurate what the parent is saying.
Me: I might have said that MADELENE told me, but I would have to look at the little note she gave me. I didn’t bring it. It’s not signed or dated, not legal, so the big breast thing… If MADELENE was denying it, I might have said to the mother, well listen, this is what MADELENE told me now check and see if that’s still her story. It’s possible. If MADELENE is saying to help me the boys are calling me this, telling me that, then I might have said to the mother check with your daughter. She checks with her daughter, her daughter says no. Now I’ve gone to the trouble of supporting this girl which she told me something so then I told her, I might have told the mother exactly what the girl told me. The big breasts sounds like something I could have said if MADELENE told me. If that’s what MADELENE told me.
HO: But you don’t remember what MADELENE told you.
41:08
Me: If MADELENE didn’t say it to me, I didn’t say it to the mother. If MADELENE told me that, then I said it. This was back on October 24.
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